Preamble The First
This is the first of three posts about subspace.
In this post I describe the overwhelmingly intense experience I had the first time I encountered subspace.
My next post covers my general observations of and conclusions about subspace as experienced by my partners, and my third post has some rather more technical observations about the physiological and neurological mechanisms of subspace (and a little of the psychological). My observations, however, aren’t all that technical, given that I’m not any sort of scientist who would know about or be in a position to verify such things.
I’ve read a lot of different things about subspace online, and I’ve spoken with a lot of different people about it.
There seems to be incredibly little, if any technical material written about the physiological, neurological, and psychological mechanisms of subspace, which I think is unbelievably disappointing. I suppose it’s yet another example of how people outside the mainstream are generally disregarded.
Which is, I think, unfortunate.
Can External Links Really Cause Anthrax?
One of the members of a yahoo group I belonged to asked a question about memorable BDSM experiences, and I’d posted about the scene I describe below. As a result of that post, some members were asking about subspace. I did write a post to that group about subspace, but before publication I was asked to remove some links I’d included.
Apparently some group moderators worry that some external links have the ability to leap out of an email or post and stab readers in the face or give them anthrax. As a result of these somewhat perplexing concerns, some group moderators apparently enjoy adopting a parental rôle towards other adults and treating them as if they were their underage offspring in need of monitoring and protection.
Oh well.
As I felt that the links I’d included were relevant to the content of my post and contained useful information, and since the moderators of the yahoo group had forbidden them (apparently to protect us all from anthrax-ridden face-stabbage), I decided to post them on my blog instead. You can find them towards the end of my second post.
Aside from the copyright issues of reposting other people’s content without so much as an attributing link, I didn’t even like to think how long my post would have ended up if I’d added all the text from the prohibited links to my own text in the post.
As far as I’m concerned, that doesn’t even bear thinking about, frankly.
So in the interest of sharing my thoughts in my preferred form, I’ve made three posts, of which this is the first.
I hope you enjoy them. :)
Lady Lubyanka 
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This was a really interesting read, Lubyanka. And, yes, hot. Really hot.
I do have a question. Your playmate specified no caning ahead of time, and then changed his mind during the scene. If something like that happened to you now (a bottom changing his mind about a limit specified ahead of time), would you still go ahead and do whatever the limit thing was (assuming you were otherwise comfortable doing it, wanted to, etc.)?
I’m asking because I consider this to be something that I wouldn’t do – it seems like a bad idea – and I wonder if my sense of that agrees with your experience and thoughts in general and, if not, if you have any thoughts on that. (Actually it would make an interesting post.)
“This was a really interesting read, Lubyanka. And, yes, hot. Really hot.”
Thank you. :)
“I do have a question. Your playmate specified no caning ahead of time, and then changed his mind during the scene. If something like that happened to you now (a bottom changing his mind about a limit specified ahead of time), would you still go ahead and do whatever the limit thing was (assuming you were otherwise comfortable doing it, wanted to, etc.)?”
Then, as now, I decide on a case by case basis.
Caning itself can be like many other kinds of touching with various implements, so there isn’t anything about caning itself which is so idiosyncratic that it’s guaranteed to be triggery every single time in every kind of way (assuming the existence of a caning trigger).
In the case of my submissive friend, the hard limit was clearly due to his recent experiences as an adult with the abusive dominant, and not because of any other health, safety, or deeper, older emotional reason.
If, on the other hand, a person had a hard limit of the cane because of their experiences with it as a non consenting child, then I would in that case respect their limit initially (and possibly always) without exception no matter whether they begged me to transgress it or not.
If the hard limit was not to choke him or otherwise put my hands on his throat in any way, then I would regard that as something I should initially (and possibly always) respect without exception, as a matter of building trust, whether there was begging to transgress or not. That kind of touching is idiosyncratic, and there’s nothing else like it.
In my experience with triggery limits, people do not tend to beg me to transgress those in the more usual subspace states I encounter.
“I’m asking because I consider this to be something that I wouldn’t do – it seems like a bad idea – and I wonder if my sense of that agrees with your experience and thoughts in general and, if not, if you have any thoughts on that. (Actually it would make an interesting post.)”
Many people who are inexperienced, or non-experienced, are not aware that things such as flogging and caning are not inextricably linked with pain. I have encountered many “hard limits” which actually are limits to do with pain, and not at all to do with limits regarding the actual activity in question.
I do not, in principle, ever try to persuade any person to experience any activity which they express is a hard limit to them.
However, if they give pain as a reason for hard limiting flogging or caning, then I will point out to them that their assumptions are erroneous and uninformed.
Many people do not have sufficient self awareness to accurately and comprehensively express prior to play what their actual hard limits and boundaries are. Experience tends to teach people what they can and cannot tolerate, but perceptions of tolerances are not always accurately observed and reported. So far it’s been mostly up to me to determine those, and to respect them when I encounter them.
I will not accept flogging as a hard limit if the reason given for that limit is pain. I don’t know if you saw my post on this? And I won’t accept a hard limit against male-male sexual activity for my gratification, if the reason given for that is “I’m not gay”, or “I’m not bi”.
But in those kinds of situations I am extremely unlikely to play with the person anyway, so the issue doesn’t tend to arise in those cases.
I find that limits and boundaries are very much about the reasons behind them, and I need to take those into account. If I am to have any hope of understanding what’s going on with an individual and their limits, then I need to spend a significant amount of time discussing limits and boundaries and the actual reasons for those limits and boundaries (as opposed to perhaps the perceived reasons for them).
If I only go by what people explicitly tell me about their boundaries, then I am likely to transgress them (and indeed have done so) unwittingly in another way, since the general rules are not always perceptible for people with less than optimal self awareness.
In my experience, not all “hard limits” are equal.
So, the answer to your question, as I said above, is that I decide on a case by case basis, depending on the reasons given.
I hope that was clear? It did seem to go on a bit (again).
Oh well.
ps: I should probably point out that I do totally accept hard limits which may appear really mundane, as long as I feel that the reason is sound.
For example, if a person says they have a hard limit which means they can’t tolerate me wearing gloves, and they give a reason such as having had a horrendous experience with gloves which resulted in something so scary it still gives them nightmares, then I am happy to accommodate that limit and respect it to the best of my ability.
That kind of limit tends not to get mentioned in requests to transgress limits whilst in subspace.
It isn’t really the particular limit, it’s the reason which is important to me, as that reason can indicate other limits which the person may not be aware of.
Ok, stopping now. :)
Thanks! I appreciated the thoroughness.
I was the other Female Domme at the party. I have spoken to a few of the subs at the said party and our version of events differ GREATLY from yours.
You started playing with someone who had been drinking, that in its self is a no-no.
You did anal on someone who has NEVER had anal before again that is wrong.
And you are saying that I was crest fallen when you spoke to ME like that..did you ask ME why? ..the reason was I was told that you were going to go and talk to the sub, and he has since played with ME.
As for cleaning the room you left USED wet wipes all over the room as well as some other stuff, you also left the party after the organiser spoke to you about subs going into sub space, it was left up to others to look after the sub..you pissed off home.
How come you no longer get ANY invites to ANY parties?
could it be you are the one NOT to be trusted.
Hello Scarlett, I remember you from the party.
“You started playing with someone who had been drinking, that in its self is a no-no.”
Perhaps our definitions of “drinking” differ? I don’t regard two small bottles of beer with a substantial meal, partaken by a large, well built man several hours before (as I said in the post), to be drinking enough to be unsafe.
Snow herself (who was the hostess of the party), at the time, was insisting to him and to myself that subspace can result in symptoms similar to intoxication with alcohol.
“You did anal on someone who has NEVER had anal before again that is wrong.”
If that were really true, how would anybody ever get anal experience, if they never do it for the first time?
“And you are saying that I was crest fallen when you spoke to ME like that..did you ask ME why? ..the reason was I was told that you were going to go and talk to the sub, and he has since played with ME.”
The way I spoke to you and what I said was entirely polite and respectful. I was within my rights to assert my temporary authority over my submissive friend, which he had consented to, and which he was clearly delighted for me to do.
Your behaviour with my submissive friend was unconsensual. I felt no need to ask you why you looked so small in your response. If you’d wanted to tell me why, you might have done so at the time, and not over a year later.
You didn’t ask me why I was asserting my rights over my submissive friend either. You didn’t ask me why I was playing with him when you thought I’d only be talking with him. And in your comment, you also did not ask about the contradicting information. You made statements. It sounds like there was a whole lot of no asking going on.
TP (the host of the party) asked me himself, in front of witnesses, at the previous party where he invited me, to come and play with that submissive. I was not told that he belonged to anybody. I was not told that I needed to consult anybody besides the submissive in question, before playing with him.
If TP told you that I was simply going to talk with him, then that is something you should take up with TP. I never told you I was only going to talk with him.
And as you don’t normally consult me before playing with your play partners, I don’t normally expect to consult you before playing with mine.
If my submissive friend has played with you since that party, then fine, that’s his choice to do.
“As for cleaning the room you left USED wet wipes all over the room as well as some other stuff”
I suppose your definition of “all over the room” differs from mine. I left the wipes in the bin. Perhaps I should have left clean wipes all over the room?
What other stuff?
Neither Snow, nor TP, nor anybody else at that party ever said anything to me about any problem they had with the way I’d left the room, or indeed, about any other issue with my participation at that party.
I saw TP and Snow quite a few times after the party, and they never made any mention of any issue to me, ever. I was invited back to their home several times, although I declined those invitations.
If anybody had a problem with me personally, surely it would have made more sense, and had a more beneficial result, if they’d approached me directly?
If there is a problem which nobody ever tells me about, then I can’t be expected to know anything about it, nor be expected to do anything to rectify it.
I will consider this a problem if I hear about it directly from TP and/or Snow. But to be honest, at over a year after the fact, it’s a bit late now.
“you also left the party after the organiser spoke to you about subs going into sub space, it was left up to others to look after the sub..you pissed off home.”
Since you did not stay the night at the party, you won’t know that I did, in fact, stay the night. I did stay with my submissive friend the entire time before he went home in a taxi. TP sat with me the whole time I was with my submissive friend, and continued to sit with me for some time after my submissive friend went home in a taxi.
So I could not have left before my submissive friend. TP invited me to bunk in with himself and Snow. As a result, Biscuit got to sleep in the guest bed in the room I’d played in. I would have slept in that room if I hadn’t bunked in with TP and Snow.
I had no contact information for my submissive friend, so I’d rung TP to find out how he was doing. TP assured me that he was doing fine. TP knows I checked afterwards to find out how he was doing. And TP knows I didn’t leave my submissive friend for others to care for whilst he was in subspace.
“How come you no longer get ANY invites to ANY parties?”
Um. Actually, I receive invites to parties, and attend them regularly. Your social circle isn’t the only one available to me.
If there really were such a big problem as you describe, then I’m not surprised I don’t get invited to those parties which you attend.
“could it be you are the one NOT to be trusted.”
I don’t understand what you mean. Where in my post did I say anything about anybody not to be trusted?
And a big hello to the other readers of my blog. Welcome to my life. :p
I believe I attended the party discussed above. The events are essentially as L describes them, apart from what happened in the bedroom. Which is none of my business — and no one else’s apart from the two people concerned.
I observed the sub at some point after the bedroom scene. He appeared spaced out but not distressed. More like in Heaven. I thought he might have been on something other than drink, but it was probably just subspace.
L was offered a lift back to Belfast which she declined as she had been offered to stay the night.
The arguments about who said what about who and why someone pinched someone’s nipple seems a bit trivial.
It is not clear to me if the Abusive Dominant mentioned by L is supposed to be Scarlett. If so that is rubbish. The first time I met Scarlett was some years ago and she took pains to emphasise the importance of safe play. Subsequently I have attended a few parties where she was present and she showed no indication of being an Abusive Dominant. Nor have I heard any suggestion or even gossip that she is.
I do wish people in the bdsm community would stop sniping at each other. It is not much fun.
triode
“It is not clear to me if the Abusive Dominant mentioned by L is supposed to be Scarlett. If so that is rubbish. The first time I met Scarlett was some years ago and she took pains to emphasise the importance of safe play. Subsequently I have attended a few parties where she was present and she showed no indication of being an Abusive Dominant. Nor have I heard any suggestion or even gossip that she is.”
I regret that I wasn’t clearer that the term “abusive dominant” was referring to what I had been told about the submissive by the person who invited me to the party, and by what the submissive himself had told me. I used the term in that context, and not in any context relating to my own experience with Scarlett.
The term “abusive dominant” was not based on my own personal experience of Scarlett’s play. I have almost no personal experience of Scarlett. The only nonconsensual activity I have personally witnessed from her was the unconsensual nipple tweak I mentioned in the post. Other than that, I could not offer any assessment as to what kind of dominant Scarlett is.
I had no intention of accusing any dominant of abuse. I certainly did not intend to infer or imply that Scarlett is an abusive dominant. In my post, I was referring to what I had been told, and nothing else.
I had not formed a personal opinion of Scarlett or her play practices. I intended to convey no such opinion. I regret that I did not ensure this was clearer in my post.
I hope I have made this clearer now.
To Anybody Who Would Like A Private Reply:
If you have left a comment on my blog, and you would like to address or discuss something which is not directly pertinent to the post, I will be happy to email you privately. However, I cannot contact you privately if you have not left a valid email address in the “Email” field of the comment form (which will not publicly show on your post).
I have attempted to contact some commenters privately, but the mails have bounced, and I don’t really wish to conduct private correspondence in the public comments on my blog, especially when it isn’t particularly relevant to the post.
So if anybody who would like to be contacted privately would please indicate a valid email address in the relevant field in their comment form? Otherwise, you may find information about how to contact me here, and I will be happy to respond to any reasonable requests.
Many thanks,
Lubyanka.
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