BDSM Dating – The Rant

 

Expecting The Impossible

Whilst soliciting sex work and denigrating the women who charge for it as ‘fake’, these men are posing as social daters but acting like cheapskate sex work clients who won’t pay their bills.   So these men are just as likely to qualify as ‘fake’ by their own definition.  

And whilst approaching dating with a fully formed outcome in mind is a perfectly useful way to approach any goal, when that outcome features unpaid sex work from social daters, the unrealistic impossibility of it does rather reduce any possible chance of success.

I just wish more men based their ideas of dating success on criteria  other  than sex work-style cock servicement.

On the up side, in my searches for images to illustrate sections of the dating guide, quite by chance I came across two images which delightfully illustrate both the impossible sex-work expectations and the realism of my usual response to those expectations.

When I came across this painting, I was immediately struck by how perfectly it illustrated the sex work expectations I am presented with so often.  

Detail from the John William Waterhouse painting Hylas and the Nymphs (1896), currently kept at the City Art Galleries, Manchester. Note how the man  (Hylas)  is just standing there doing nothing at all, surrounded by hot nude women  (nymphs)  who are all doing everything they can to solicit his  cock  already built-in willingness  favours.

Sex work-based expectations not only include lists of demands on the partner, but also frequently include the man’s abdication of responsibility for his desires and actions.  

And this beautiful painting perfectly illustrates a man standing there taking no responsibility for himself, whilst he passes the buck to the hot nude women who are all wooing, cajoling, coaxing and cosseting him to do what he undoubtedly wants to do anyhow.

I can understand why such an idea would be so popular amongst men who use their cocks to act like dicks and can’t understand why every woman they lust after runs away very fast.

I am contacted fairly regularly by men I’ve never met who not only expect and assume my imaginary desire to get erotic with strangers and with them in particular, but also expect and assume my imaginary desire to coax and woo and persuade them to treat me like a sex worker.

A  scumbucket  man like this not only expects me, a private social dater, to follow his explicit cock-servicing instructions to the letter, but he also demands nursmaiding and coaxing and wooing and coddling to get his cock serviced like he wanted all along, because  (wait for it …):
 

 
In this painting you can see that the women are doing all the coaxing whilst all the man has to do is own a cock.   But  this is art,  not life, and those of you who have ever spent any time socialising with real women will know that the imagery in this painting is male fantasy bullshit.

And even though  scumbuckets  men like this they may have found opening their mouths supremely easy when it came to treating me like their own personal private unpaid sex worker, all of a sudden  (and waaayyyyy too late)  they clamp their fat mouths shut, and I’m supposed to be so desperate to service their cock that they expect me to beg and plead and coax and coddle and woo and nursemaid them along, and all because they’re  shy?!

Well, fuck that.

Susanna and the Elders - painted in 1610 by Artemisia Gentileschi, kept at Schloss Weissenstein, Pommersfelden. This painting  (unsurprisingly painted by a woman)  perfectly illustrates my  actual  response to those men.   My perfect caption for this painting would be something like:
 

    Ewwwww, go away!

 
Now, understand that these totally impossible and utterly disrespectful sex work expectations come from men in their 30s, 40s, 50s and 60s, all demonstrating the social finesse of a 5-year-old.  

Although actually when I come to think about it I’ve known quite a few 5-year-olds with more finesse than that.

Any man who has spent more than 3 microseconds in the company of living breathing women and  still  insists on believing that ‘porn’ equals ‘documentary’, is totally taking his willing suspension of disbelief  waayyyyy  too far.   Such is the power of wishful thinking.

Although I recognise that porn in general represents women in general with wild inaccuracy, I do appreciate that the idea of all women’s free and willing sexual availability to all men is a very popular porn premise.  

On the other hand, I also totally understand that accurate depictions of women are hardly likely sell porn to the vast market of men who can’t attract them.   I feel pretty sure that porn featuring rejection and women hurtling away from men at the speed of sound would probably cost more to make than it would ever earn.

Having said that, films like that could well be big earners in the comedy section.   :)
 

Get With The Programme – Porn Is Fiction

Pretty table representing human sexuality on the internet. So unmarketable documentary porn  (if it were ever made)  would feature real women rejecting socially inept would-be sex work clients who treat them badly.

And profitable porn  (as it is currently made)  features women portraying invented desires, unrealistic sexual availability and wildly fictional eager interests in servicing unattractive, disrespectful  and  socially inept cock owners who treat them badly.

Now, I really get that this is a very desirable and attractive model for a woman-repelling man to believe in.   What socially inept woman-repelling man wouldn’t cling for dear life to the idea that all he needs is a cock to automatically win the sexual jackpot every time?

Too bad for him that  this is fiction.   Otherwise his dating efforts might be successful every once in a while.

(instead of never)

If man reaches adulthood and  still  cannot distinguish fiction from fact, then as far as I’m concerned that’s his problem.

I know, finding out that porn is fiction must surely be a crushing disappointment to you!   But that’s not our fault.   When you insist on ignoring fact and believing in fiction, we can’t be held responsible for your subsequent social problems.   And we especially can’t be held responsible for losing all interest in you when you insist on treating us so very badly.

Unfortunately that is yet another way you engineer your own epic fails.

I don’t know how you manage to keep ignoring the difference between fiction and fact when your near-perfect rejection record is always there to remind you.   Since you  still  can’t work it out, you’ve clearly got  waaaayyy  more problems than any prospective date can solve.

Social partners cannot fix these issues for you.   These problems will not go away by themselves.   You need a professional to help you resolve them.   Please go find one and make an appointment.

Thank you.
 

About Lady Lubyanka

I am a 45 year old musician, and also a multisexual, polyamourous, Jewish, socially dominant woman within my romantic BDSM relationships.
This entry was posted in BDSM dating, Consent, exclusion, fuckwitism, fuckwits, fuckwittedness, Human Beingness 101, Me Me Me Me Me, Psychology, Rant, Rantfest, Respect. Bookmark the permalink.

37 Responses to BDSM Dating – The Rant

  1. Mudshark Jones says:

    Wow! Everything you say is disgustingly true; and you make it so clear in a sometimes sad, sometimes hilarious way. On the other hand, thank God for prostitutes!

  2. Pingback: Head In The Clouds | Lady Lubyanka

  3. Rrrowdy Girrrl says:

    I’m putting this on my fetlife writing page…it’s what I’ve said over and over and over again! You are the awesome for laying it out so baldly!

  4. Xenor says:

    Both sexes are guilty of poor communication when it comes to sex. Some are inexperienced. Some are tired of games. Some are uncertain and simply trying different methods until they find one that works for them.

    Many of us are simply tired of women locking sex away like a rainy-day play toy that rarely sees the light of day and must never be talked about. Bold, unfiltered conversation about sex can answer many questions about what kind of person you’re dealing with. Strangely, the same is true about the sex you have with someone as well. I can’t tell you how many women seem to be generous, nice people until they get in the bedroom. Sometimes you can discover the selfish person hiding inside long before you can drag it out socially.

    Sadly, the cause of this is still mostly on the shoulders of society, religion, and overprotective parents whose little girl barely learns to touch herself when she starts dating. I’m sure there are some men who fit into this category as well. Many more men fit into the category of “I got mine, why didn’t you get yours?” They can’t be bothered with a complex female orgasm, and simply don’t have the brain power to enjoy unlocking the mystery. It’s cute at first. Then its annoying. Finally, those of us who are looking for great sex from a relationship simply want to avoid the confusion and ultimate failure this type of union inevitably spawns. Some are willing to be patient, others are not.

    I applaud members of both sexes who are brutally honest about their sexual interests, and in sharing their importance early on in the conversation. Clever partners can have productive conversations about sex with out using brute force tactics or blunt weapon strikes into the dating battle. Yet the job can still get done.

    And while it might seem crude to you, how would you like to go shopping for something at a store only to have the clerk tell you.. “Wellll, we miiight have that here…..ask me again in a little while” only to string you along for several hours…sidetracking the conversation to her outfit, the weather, the news, and the latest entertainment gossip”. While in this modern era the dating rules are changing a bit, many men still find themselves on the business end of the dinner check and they have a right to know if they are wasting their time…

    There is even greater importance in the realm of BDSM dating. As a 6’4″ male, I have to be EXTREMELY careful about kinky play. I don’t want to deal with tip-toeing through several dates of courting to find out their idea of “kinky” sex is doing it in the living room with the blinds open and the light off while the thought of someone “taking control” freaks them out.

    So, I simply won’t waste my time with the multiple-date quiz show to find out if maybe we are on the same page. With the right person the social-sexual journey is wonderful, and need not be dived into headfirst. But there is nothing wrong with pointing out that you like to take the path through the dark woods that some people say are haunted….

    • “While in this modern era the dating rules are changing a bit, many men still find themselves on the business end of the dinner check and they have a right to know if they are wasting their time… [...] So, I simply won’t waste my time with the multiple-date quiz show to find out if maybe we are on the same page.”

      Thank you for providing such a salient and pertinent example, Xenor. This is exactly what I’m talking about.

      Notice that you describe social dating as unsatisfactory because you invest a certain amount of time, energy and money, and are then disappointed with the outcome. I think this is because you are approaching social dating with expectations more appropriate to sex work.

      So if you’re willing to pay (e.g. dinner check) and want a guaranteed outcome (e.g. wasting your time), then I recommend you stay well clear of social daters (whom you describe as unsatisfactory), and go hire the sex workers who provide what you say you want.

      • Xenor says:

        You are seeing what you want to see from the statement. Sex isn’t the ONLY thing which would be a deal breaker. I would also be wasting my time if I found out that the woman was ultra-conservative or ultra-liberal, she owned several cats, she wanted me to convert to her religion, etc. A handful of fairly important topics that, for me, define compatible or incompatible. Sex is one of those things. You have to treat it as such. There is nothing wrong with having some core values and interests that define you as a person and help you better select partners.

        So an intelligent person does several things to increase the chances that they might have a compatible partner. I wouldn’t go looking for a girl in church, for example. I wouldn’t go to a Democrat or Republican rally either. I would feel these things out before I even asked a girl on a date. I don’t pretend to know where you meet the hordes of men who behave like boys and talk about sex to such an extent…but perhaps you should stop frequenting either the locations or social circles where you keep finding them? Just a thought….

        For the record, I’m married. When first meeting my future wife, we talked about sex in some of our first conversations. We didn’t start dating until almost a year later, and didn’t have sex until almost another year into the relationship. My “goal” wasn’t to get laid, it was to make certain that sex would be something we’d both enjoy throughout the relationship. However, I also made certain that our religious and political views where aligned early on as well. (If only I had known about her throw-pillow compulsion earlier on…) I “approached” social dating from the standpoint that I didn’t want it to last my entire lifetime and that certain core criteria should be met. I never went looking for a one night stand and was disappointed when they happened. But I was also disappointed when I found out they already had a man in their life (Jesus), could be brought to foaming hysterics when someone said something bad about their ex…(President) Bill Clinton [or Bush], or..

        The point is….sex is a big deal…so big that it is a deal-breaker for many people. But your rant could just have easily been written about the men who want wives to be stay-at-home parents, men whose lives revolve around the professional sports schedule, or a handful of other stereotypes. In short, it seems you are complaining about the fact that many men have clearly defined wants and needs that differ from your own.

        The irony here is that you don’t see the hypocrisy if the fact that you want sex conversation to occur on “your” terms. Just like so many of the men that you loathe. It is somewhat understandable, given that you are a dominant and therefore want the world to be defined from your point of view, but ironic nonetheless.

      • You are seeing what you want to see from the statement. Sex isn’t the ONLY thing which would be a deal breaker.”

        Perhaps not, but sex was the only deal breaker you specified in your previous post. Since that was all you chose to include, that’s what I saw. Blaming me doesn’t change that.

        “The point is….sex is a big deal…so big that it is a deal-breaker for many people. But your rant could just have easily been written about the men who want wives to be stay-at-home parents, men whose lives revolve around the professional sports schedule, or a handful of other stereotypes.”

        In my entire lifetime, solicitations from men who were strangers to me expressing expectations that I would marry them have reached a total of about two (2). Solicitations from men who were strangers to me expressing expectations that I would be their stay-at-home co-parent or sports widow have reached a grand total of zero (0).

        So I’m guessing that you haven’t even read this rant, and if that’s the case, I’m wondering why you’re even commenting on it.

        “The irony here is that you don’t see the hypocrisy if the fact that you want sex conversation to occur on “your” terms.”

        I feel sorry for anybody who has conversations on terms other than their own. Every conversation I have occurs on terms I agree to. If the terms are disagreeable to me, then I disengage and *poof*, no more conversation.

        Your definition of hypocrisy is one I’m unfamiliar with.

        “Just like so many of the men that you loathe.”

        Nice projection there. Good luck with that.

  5. Xenor says:

    Oh…you’re right. I did miss the part where you wanted to join a Knitting, Chess, Horse-riding and occasional BDSM club. Clearly, BDSM has only minor basis in sexual wants and needs, and since 99% of BDSM followers got clear, concise lessons on how to do it properly from both their parents and their church…you’re argument is right on the money.

    If I stumble across a BDSM club for asexual people, I’ll be sure to send you the hyperlink. For now, I’m just going to assume that your blog isn’t a soapbox for someone looking to change the status quo but rather a place where you get to vent and hope you find the 0.05% of the population that sees the world from your point of view….

    • “Clearly, BDSM has only minor basis in sexual wants and needs, [...] If I stumble across a BDSM club for asexual people, I’ll be sure to send you the hyperlink. For now, I’m just going to assume that your blog isn’t a soapbox for someone looking to change the status quo but rather a place where you get to vent and hope you find the 0.05% of the population that sees the world from your point of view….”

      Lay-deeeeeeez and gentlemennnnnn! I present to you …

      A man blaming women for his failure to attract them!

      Step right up, step right up and check out this fine specimen!
      Note his assumption that BDSM = sex!
      Note his angry misogyny and groin-coloured glasses!
      Note his failure to address the points and customary use of denigration!
      Note his assumed entitlement of sexual access to women!

      These creatures can be found in large numbers everywhere! But this particular specimen has the rarer feature of a brain which functions well in some areas yet mysteriously shuts down on the topic of dating.

      Step right up, step right up for this fabulous opportunity to check out this extraordinary creature before his probation officer comes to collect him!

      What, no takers?

  6. Xenor says:

    Not angry, just disappointed. Was actually looking for places where the wife might come and learn a little something about comfortably climbing into the dominant head-space. Turns out it would be like asking Adolf Hitler to teach kindergarten.

    It appears you are a faux feminist in disguise as a “lifestyle domme”.

    Yes, the world does revolve around penis’ and vaginae. You wouldn’t be here if that weren’t the case. I love when “enlightened” folks think a few generations is all it should take to wipe out patriarchal influence on society and relationships. Ten thousand + years of natural selection and our existence on earth as one of the few species that achieves orgasm can easily be corrected with a critical mass of women peppering the blogosphere with words like “misogyny” and “penis-driven motives”.

    The good news is you are in a socialized medicine country. The bad news is that probably means long waiting lines and it may be several months before you can see a mental health specialist to get you the help that you need.

    For us, the search continues….

    • “It appears you are a faux feminist in disguise as a “lifestyle domme”. Yes, the world does revolve around penis’ and vaginae. [...] it may be several months before you can see a mental health specialist to get you the help that you need.”

      Look folks, it talks!

      What, still no takers?

    • “Not angry, just disappointed. Was actually looking for places where the wife might come and learn a little something about comfortably climbing into the dominant head-space.”

      [bzzzzzzztt!] Whoops, the bullshit detector has busted you.

      It’s waaayyy too late to pretend you were deciding whether to send anybody here. Your snarky comments were never a fact-finding mission. You knew before you started snarking that this rant is where sex work expectations get shot down in flames.

      If you do have a wife you were never going to send her here. That passive aggressive toy-throwing-out-the-pram crap may work on your alleged wife, but here it only serves to make you a better example of the fuckwits I describe in this rant.

      If you want your alleged wife to read resources on BDSM, and if you want her to ‘comfortably climb into a dominant head-space’, then

      put your penis away and let her choose.

  7. Xenor says:

    @zzita: Forgive me, but it was six years ago and I can’t recall exactly the manner in which I brought up the sex conversation. We were both in undergrad at the time and living near the university we both attended. We met in organic chemistry :)

    It may have been something as innocuous as mentioning that hydrogen bonds are all well and good but that you need rope if you want a molecule to stick around and enjoy itself. Cheesy, I know, but the point was that it caused enough of a pause on her part to let me know I had gained her interest. I really do not recall but I’m sure I could get specific details from my “companion” if you want them.

    I was on the tail end of a relationship at the time, and I had to give it some time to make sure that there was full closure. I dislike jumping from relationship to relationship, and time in between helped me make sure that it wasn’t just a passing lust for the “something” that was missing from the previous relationship. That is why it was almost a full year before we started dating.

    As to why we waited for sex? She was raised Catholic, and the only other serious boyfriend in her life had cheated on her. I had already had a handful of one night stands in my past that I had wanted more from. My first sexual encounter had been with a serious girlfriend that I was in love with…and I decided after a few years of casual dating in college that intimate relationship sex trumps casual sex every time…at least for me.

    There are many models used to explain people’s motivation. Right now, we like Chapman’s “The 5 Love Languages” to help steer us through our differences. In short, I’m a physical communicator who seeks validation through action. She seeks it through verbal means. It our current stressful phase in life (her completing her PhD. in PathMicro…me pursuing my M.D.) we sometimes find ourselves at odds getting our individual needs met when we are physically or emotionally exhausted. It is easy to fall back on the communication style you know instead of using the one that your partner needs.

    We had started using tease & denial/chastity play as a means of compromise. We’re still trying to determine if it is for the right reasons and if it can truly help her bring out her creativity. (Something she has struggled with ever since a traumatic 4th grade incident involving a writing assignment apparently..) It was one of the Yahoo Groups (CB3000, I think) that brought me here…

    @ Lady Lubyanka:
    Long story short: Bringing someone out of the sexual dredges of strict Catholic upbringing is challenging. It is only made more complicated when you stumble across potential resources only to find someone looking for a credit card number OR someone who seems to believe that “all men are pigs who simply want their penis touched”. While it is true that many men have psyche which are based in physical validation, their true motivation are much more complex than their penis…so much so that they don’t necessarily understand it themselves.

    It may be possible that your advice ONLY applies to TRUE lifestyle BDSM practitioners, of which there are few (not surprisingly). I may have missed that in the disclaimer and would therefore owe you an apology. Perhaps it is your schtick…insulting men continually as a simplistic means of maintaining the domme persona. Perhaps you started this blog to vent some rage at a few men who did you wrong and are still flogging them in your head since you cannot do so in real life. I really do not know.

    But what I do know is that continually debasing men outside of “playtime” is both unproductive and childish. It is no different than the men who objectify women and treat them as sperm receptacles. While it might be an excellent form of therapy for yourself (to view most men as penis-driven neanderthals), it does no favors to casual BDSM practitioners and those seeking advice on the subject. Hopefully you will come around to this once you have let go of the rage.

    @zzita: Thanks for actually reading my comment and finding the “hidden” message.

    • Xenor, I am concluding that you are basing your opinion of me and my entire blog on this one post. I did label it as a rant to distinguish it from the many, many, many posts I’ve published which are unranty.

      Perhaps you missed that I was speaking about specific kinds of problematic behaviours and the motivations I attribute to these behaviours. At no time do I say that all men fit these criteria. I do say that most of the men who solicit me do fit these criteria, because they do.

      If you have a look at the Dim Sum page, you’ll see a wide selection of categories under which my posts are filed. You’ll see that many of my posts describe enjoyable experiences I’ve had with the highly valued men in my life, so I have no reason whatsoever to adopt the attitudes you attribute to me.

      In the sidebar you’ll find a link to my first post, and if you read it you’ll see what kind of post started this blog.

  8. tgru says:

    “We had started using tease & denial/chastity play as a means of compromise. We’re still trying to determine if it is for the right reasons and if it can truly help her bring out her creativity.”

    Dominating you for the sake of getting *you* off is a bit of an oxymoron; where’s *your* creativity?

  9. Xenor says:

    @zzita – Not talking about sex. Normal “vanilla” sex is complicated enough without trying to guess what people want or need. BDSM sex is an order of magnitude more complex. Two people claiming to be into bondage could have entirely different expectations about what that means and where they like to go in their head when it happens. It can be great the first few times w/o really talking about it, but then you’re SOL when you find out that one likes to fantasize about rape while the other simply likes the sensation of having movement restricted. It can be very uncomfortable for both parties when true motivations aren’t shared.

    I agree that emailing someone a picture of your junk is tacky, and e-stalking someone is de facto criminal even if it technically isn’t de jure in every country. My argument still stands. A BDSM dating web site/service is no different than a bar or club. If you constantly find yourself the victim of unwanted advances..it probably just makes sense to move on and go someplace else. It sucks when your favorite coffee bar gets overrun by yuppies…but that is the price we pay for supporting a capitalist system. Perhaps you should try eHarmony? I understand that they are more serious over there. But I have no idea. They might discourage members from profiling any kind of sexual preference. They may also be more geared towards serious relationships that focus on more traditional, monogamous roles. I’m not sure.

    Regardless, thanks for clarification. I’m still not sure if I can be convinced that BDSM groups/clubs/sites should be viewed as a social dating place first and a sexual orientation exploration second (or further down the list). But I would agree that there are members who attempt to exploit newbies to fulfill their own needs. However, this is true of just about every institution on the planet. I doubt that our (my wife’s and mine) curiosity will ever extend into the realm of lifestyle BDSM. But if it did, I would fully expect for sex to be the predominant feature at a club/group/etc.. As far as I’m concerned, we can get all our general social needs in the standard places…work, double dates, family reunions, etc.. etc.. For many people who are not lifestyle BDSM…this aspect of their life is intentionally compartmentalized. Put another way…I could easily make friends with someone in a BDSM club, but the first thing I would want to know is if our sexual interests are compatible. (For example, neither my wife or I are really masochists…but we both like the idea of spanking someone who would get reluctantly aroused from the scene. We would have not interest in working with a couple that like piercing their partners and doing extreme bondage which test pain limits.) But again, I can’t speak from a lifestyle perspective.

    @tgru:
    95% of the time, I am the initiator of sex in our relationship. The reasons are varied, but suffice it to say she is a very passive/non-confrontational person in almost every aspect of her life. (Professional, friendships, parent/child, etc..). Being dominant (but not domme) and a bit of an alpha-male, I didn’t have much of a problem with this early on. Over time, it became clear that this wouldn’t be sustainable for the long run. So we’ve been working on ways to find the compromise that works for both of us.

    I want what I think many men want. A partner who initiates equally and works just as hard fulfilling my needs as I work to fulfill hers. Sometimes that involves work in the bedroom. Other times that involves “foreplay” outside of the bedroom. The needs for each of us varies as the mood varies, but ultimately…yes…I want her to be more creative in the bedroom because it will make me feel more loved & more desired. I want her to take the time and effort to improve her sexual “encyclopedia”…both because it will give me affirmation and because it will help her better understand her own psyche, needs, and motivation. Lifelong sex takes work. Sometimes there are challenges and road blocks….and sometimes there are wonderful breakthroughs which move you closer and closer to someone.

    I am very creative, perhaps a little too much. So my work takes the form of patience at the moment, and sometimes encouragement or even pressure. Not pressure to try any particular thing or do something she doesn’t want to do….but pressure to continually explore her sexuality more. Are her beliefs her own or were they impressed upon her by her peers, her parents, or society? Why? Because in her particular case…raised in a conservative Catholic parochial school….she was pretty much taught that sex was for losers from her tween years on… I hope that explains enough…

    Back to my main point. I think that many people (both women and men) need to better understand the deeper emotional needs behind their sexual cravings. I think that even (most) men who act like jackasses filling a primal need are actually just unable to recognize or verbalize the deeper needs. Is it every woman’s responsibility to help steer/guide these men to more productive behavior? Hell no. But it does no good to create a simple classification for any man that rubs you the wrong way and start shoveling them in there at the slightest provocation. It is as damaging and counter productive to enlightenment as the scarlet “A” ( or the term slut) is to describe any woman who is more in touch with her sexuality and cravings.

    You are correct to assume that I haven’t read the novel that is your blog. I can’t tell you exactly how I found my way to a sub-post in your “The Rant” section. What I can tell you is that the particular post, and more specifically your responses to my comments, left me with a less that co-operative feeling. You obviously pride yourself in breaking down some of the traditional walls and stereotypes around sexuality. I can applaud that. But telling hyper sexual men to go find a sex worker because that is what they need is a bit counter productive, in my opinion. Grouping them together and finding creative ways to insult them only provokes their ire and anger to be directed towards you or perhaps the next female. Reinforcing the attitude that they are defined by their penis might bring you a few chuckles, but it may also push them to embrace this definition and continue through life looking for the next object to “drain their balls”. Poking the bear only encourages it to continue rampaging through camp.

    I can’t pretend to know what it is like to be a female who has to constantly spurn the advances of men. But I think you might appreciate the fact that many women learn to make men feel guilty for craving sex more frequently than they do. Many women use it as a defense mechanism when they are with partners who have greater sexual needs than they can handle. Many marriages end in divorce because couples are unable to rectify those differences. It isn’t always the case, but this often occurs because you have women who are passive about their sexual needs (and didn’t talk about it enough) AND because you have men who are unable to verbalize their deeper needs for connection and use sex as a crutch to get the “action” validation they need.

    Down the road, this will hopefully be less of an issue. When women are not demonized for wanting sex (or for NOT wanting it), they will be better equipped to talk about and explore sex in a helpful, productive manner. When men are no longer demonized for having a penis and the higher sex drive that comes with it, they will be better equipped to have mature conversations about their other needs. Change needs to happen…but making men feel guilty about wanting/needing sex will only cause more problems in the long run. Even the really obnoxious/creepy/immature ones.

    Hopefully that is a better define and more productive response….

    • “I doubt that our (my wife’s and mine) curiosity will ever extend into the realm of lifestyle BDSM. But if it did, I would fully expect for sex to be the predominant feature at a club/group/etc..”

      I have experience with BDSM clubs/groups/etc, and I can tell you categorically that sex is absolutely inappropriate at 99% of those events. And this is mostly for the protection of the women who attend. Otherwise women would stay the fuck away. Just think about it for a second. Groups for married people aren’t about marriage ceremonies, right? Support groups for alcoholism aren’t about drinking alcohol, right? And likewise, sexuality-themed groups aren’t about having sex, they are generally about sexuality discussion.

      Sexuality != Sex
      Discussion != Doing

      “But telling hyper sexual men to go find a sex worker because that is what they need is a bit counter productive, in my opinion. Grouping them together and finding creative ways to insult them only provokes their ire and anger to be directed towards you or perhaps the next female.”

      I agree. It’s a good thing that’s not what I’m doing.

      I mentioned this before and I’ll mention it again – I am directing people to sex workers for reasons other than their sex drive, and I am grouping nobody together and insulting nobody. What I am doing is:

      describing my experiences with problematic behaviours
      – explaining why they are problematic
      – offering appropriate sex work alternatives

      No matter how much you generalise and blame me in particular, I am not responsible for your unpleasant experiences with other women, and I am not responsible for what other women do. Your objections to what I’ve written are based on your own projections, and are unrelated to the words I actually used. I cannot conduct a productive discussion with somebody who argues with what I didn’t say. I can’t help your persistent misinterpretation of my words as a personal attack rather than as a description of my personal experiences.

      And meanwhile, you object to being generalised whilst persistently generalising women. To me, this is an unhelpful example to set.

      I literally cannot participate in discussions in which my discussion partner begins by putting me in a hole I have to dig myself out of before I can even start on a level playing field. I cannot spend the first part of my discussion saying what I didn’t do just to sort out my discussion partner’s erroneous and unsupported conclusions.

      If you want to have a productive discussion with me, then I personally would find it helpful if you got down to specifics in terms of your own experiences and in terms of the actual words which I specifically wrote.

      Thank you.

    • “When men are no longer demonized for having a penis and the higher sex drive that comes with it, they will be better equipped to have mature conversations about their other needs. Change needs to happen…but making men feel guilty about wanting/needing sex will only cause more problems in the long run.”

      Again, I’m demonsing nobody, this is about problematic behaviour!

      I’m making nobody feel anything. If you personally feel guilty, that’s your issue. But these behaviours happen and happen and happen, and no amount of denial is going to change that.

  10. belledame222 says:

    Wonders if perhaps the problem isn’t actually that “the wife” just isn’t that into you…

  11. Xenor says:

    Are you sure we are reading the same discussion?

    In my first comment, I accused you of nothing. My very first sentence highlighted the theme of my comment: Poor communication. Throughout this entire comment dialogue, I have always been advocating sex communication and honest conversations and NOT just the act of sex. Even with my last comment, I was referring to BDSM clubs, etc and being places to have candid conversations about kinky sex…not actually doing it there, per se. What I have read about scenes has varied from site to site…but some are clearly talkers while others are doers. I admit to having no real life experience in the BDSM scene. I do not believe that I have an interest in pursuing it as a lifestyle, but I will not say never.

    I was attempting to point out to you that it is possible that an intelligent, educated individual who isn’t showing up to the party waving his junk around may still rightfully expect that the purpose for coming to such a scene is to talk about BDSM techniques, toys, positions, inspiration, outfits…etc. He/She may also have very little interest in small talk about poetry, motorcycles, or what happened last night on “The Office”. I do not think that such an individual has unrealistic expectations nor do I think he/she is being selfish in wanting to see those expectations met. Obviously some tact and politeness should still be in effect. It may differ from your own desires as the purpose of the “scene”, but it is still valid. Does it overlap with sex work? Possibly. But just as you advocate porn as an unproductive means which generates unrealistic expectations…I would feel talking to a prostitute would be counter productive as well. I’m not looking to please a client…I’m looking to please a partner. In my mind its a huge distinction….one which draws a line and clearly places “sex workers” on the opposite side of what I want/need.

    In my personal life, I simply want(ed) girls to know that I wanted my sexual experiences to include bondage and some dominance role-playing. If they were curious, and either had some previous experience or had fantasized about such….well…those turned into the long term relationships (2-3 years). Once I understood that it was part of my sexual needs….well….I took the view that it is no different than telling someone you are Catholic…or that you smoke….or that you want children. Important parts of ones beliefs that should be shared with potential mates. Nothing else. I did not want to force something on to someone that they were not interested in….but I also did not want to live a lie where my darkest fantasies were hidden from my partner and the relationship felt “unfulfilled” at some point down the road. My efforts were successful….my relationships did not end because of problems in the bedroom or any sense of betrayal on either side about who someone was or what they wanted. Therefore my anecdotal sample of four relationships has reinforced my hypothesis. Being honest up front = good.

    While I appreciate that you do not like being defined by a single blog post, I respectfully ask you to consider all the assumptions you made about me from a single comment. I would also ask that you look into the format/display of your blogs and their associated comments. My initial comment was attached to a sub-post under “The Rant”. I’m not sure specifically which one…but it was one of the ones underneath “Some Basic Shit”. I was a little thrown when my initial comment appeared underneath EVERY post of “The Rant” section. I was thrown even more when you interpreted my comments as being directed towards the WHOLE blog…and therefore interpreted it as an attack on your very person. It degraded from there….and for the sake of progress lets just say that mistakes were made on both sides. Point is…your comments section may not be working correctly and/or you may want to consider adding specific post details to notification messages, subscriptions or something. zzita caught the intent of my comments, but you missed them for some reason. Lets just chalk it up to a bad day?

    Which brings us back to my original message. After reading your “rant” and the language you used throughout….I get the impression that your bad experiences with different BDSM scenes (clubs, dating sites, etc..) and the anger/resentment you harbor from them is more than just a passing annoyance. To paraphrase from your intro to the re-introduced collection posted on Oct 17th…”there are a lot of rants”.

    Your helpful dating guide might be eloquent, concise and incredibly useful. My comment was not made on that section of your blog. My subsequent impressions from your replies still leaves me with a sense that you still have a lot of rage. You made many assumptions about me, my intentions, and my motivations from only a few paragraphs of comments. It seems that many of them were pre-formed with very little prompting on my part. Obviously, our subsequent comments did nothing to help our impression(s) of one another.

    • Xenor sent me this addition to his comment by email.
      ——
      From: Xenor
      Subject: Re: [New comment] BDSM Dating – The Rant
      Date: 17 November 2010 16:37:32 GMT
      To: Lubyanka

      I debated whether or not to post the second half of my response to the blog, but decided that it ran the risk of continuing to “call you out” and provoke a need to save face rather than admit any error. I leave it up to you on whether or not you feel this half of the “argument” would be productive for others to read or if you sense a stalemate is enough of a “win”…
      …….
      While I may not be any more qualified to make assumptions and categorize you, I feel at least a little more justified in the sense that my “initial” interpretation is based upon the pages and pages and pages you have devoted towards creatively insulting (some) men, oversimplifying their motivations and using a lot dick jokes to paint them as ugly as possible. If you are truly attempting to inform and improve the BDSM community as a whole, then I suggest you retire “The Rant” to your own personal archives. Or at the very least, perhaps you can summarize it and remove a lot of the hurtful language. While I understand your purpose to “disarm” the disagreeable behavior of some men and make (some) women feel more comfortable that they are not alone in experiencing these events….I tell you that it is counter productive in the long run. The most successful civil rights movements of our generation were passive and mature; not confrontational and stooping to the level of the oppressors. If you need proof…look no further than our conversation to see how quickly productive conversation turns to mush when insults fly.

      You want (some) men to take ownership of their insulting behavior and be respectful of other members. I am not in denial that these behaviors exist. But yes….you do make people feel something when you go to great lengths to insult them and stereotype them. You are at least partly responsible for the reaction invoked in my gender, regardless if we are “guilty” of such disagreeable behavior or not. You should take ownership of the fact that words written under emotional duress have a tendency to provoke the same in others. To some extent, phrases like “cock-centric” and “100 percent rejection record” and many, many others are no less insulting and no less counter-productive than word pairs like “nigger” and “honky” or “dyke” and “breeder”. Yes, some men have done you (and other women) wrong, hurt your feelings and made you feel insecure in your own skin. This is vile behavior and you are justified to feel anger, rage, and a whole slew of other emotions. But no credible (or licensed) psychologist is going to tell you to go out slash their tires or to carry a gun and shoot them the next time you see them. From MY perspective (and perhaps a few other males and some females that might stumble across your blog), your less-than-flattering descriptors found in “The Rant” provoke or sustain hurtful/angry feelings rather than remove them. You have at least recognized this by compartmentalizing them a little when you placed all the blogs under “The Rant” with a disclaimer. But does that really make it OK and absolve you of any wrong?

      Regardless, I have learned at least one lesson. Lifestyle BDSM “players” (and/or Social BDSM daters) may be a poor model for someone looking to add a little kink to their sex life. The intricacies of dealing with it daily must place a whole new dynamic, stress and level of importance to one’s experiences. Lines are being drawn and battles are being fought over territories, definitions and acceptable motivations. In short, politics has firmly taken root and it is not for the faint-hearted. I respect that the topic is near-and-dear to your heart, and the reason you feel compelled to “keep it real”. You obviously have no obligation to make changes to your writing style OR to attempt to appeal to a wider audience. But if your goal is reform and wider acceptance, then I thought you should at least know a different perspective from a man that isn’t based in “penis logic”…

      • firefey says:

        it’s like a bingo card….. so, much entitled bullshit.

        no, we don’t have to be nice and spare your feelings xenor. also, you seriously need to stop trying to tell women what their experiences are and are not.

        while i’m all for discussing sexual compatibility, that’s IN NO WAY what this post is about. you need to get that firmly planted in your head. women on BDSM sites – whether they’re there for the purpose of finding dates or just for additional resources or for some other reason- get solicited. that’s not a condemnation of men, it’s a fact. so, just because SOME men can’t get through their heads that my vagina is not for public consumption, i (and all the other women who have to put up with this BULLSHIT) should not go onto those websites. or what? i deserve to get dick shots in my inbox, and disgusting missives about the various kinds of fucking they want from me?

        also, i can hate an entitled attitude that many men display without hating men. it’s not a difficult distinction to make.

    • Ok Xenor, I understand that you are addressing your responses to me, and I understand that you feel absolutely sincere about what you are saying.

      My difficulty is that you are refuting points which are unfamiliar to me, which are foreign to my beliefs, and which are absent from the posts and comments you are referencing.

      So whatever you’re talking about, I’m not sure why you’re addressing it to me because the content of your comments and the content of what I wrote appear to be completely unrelated.

      If you’d care to specify and quote my points which you take issue with, I’ll be happy to address them. Otherwise I can’t comment.

  12. Naughtynick81 says:

    “A man blaming women for his failure to attract them!”

    No, he is telling you how it is. And this is a stupid statement to make considering he is married.

    Secondly, it seems that you are exactly playing the “blame game” here. But that’s typical for most women really. It’s always acceptable to blame men for nearly everything but a man is considered as a misogynist and/or social outcast if he dares to blame women for the failures in dating.

  13. R-chan says:

    Oh, Nick. You’re like a busted record player. Why don’t you find some nice woman to plug your ass on a regular basis?

  14. Venonymous says:

    I would just like to add regarding the dreaded cock shot that my husband has been asked by (supposedly) women for a picture of his “hot, hard cock He responded with a picture of a roster with the caption, ” My huge cock.”
    The 45 year old men posing as women didn’t respond to him after this.
    My husband is smart enough to know that if a “woman” actually asks for pics if your member, “she” is most likely a “he.” and my husband isn’t into showing pictures of his penis to anyone, but specifically men, as he us not teh gay.

    A good man; I haz it.

  15. Well, I would call a lot of this advice non-BSDM specific. On the other hand, I think relationship cluelessness is a worldwide thing, crossing all boundaries, borders, customs and tastes.

    Hey, wow, we finally found the recipe for world togetherness….

    Oh wait.

    • Heh, I agree that most if not all of it is totally general and not BDSM specific.

      I did label it BDSM dating because in my experience, so many BDSM daters seem to make these weird conclusions about BDSM somehow transforming the unacceptable into acceptability, if you see what I mean? It’s like they need to start learning how to date from scratch all over again. I don’t understand it, but that’s apparently what happens.

      I especially hope this stuff is useful for those who are asked or expected in the name of BDSM to do the unacceptable, and are asking themselves if it really is.

  16. Becca says:

    just wanted to say… I found this post hilarious. I am genuinely sick of men sending me pictures of their cocks. I can’t believe how often it occurs, how happy they are to initiate this, and how they expect me to react.

    Frankly, (and I like sexual encounters with men): it’s ugly. Good for you.

  17. Kelly says:

    I’m linking this to my Fetlife page too, on my websites. This shit is so true!

  18. bwahahahahahaahhh!!! This was a fun rant, why am I not surprised that its publication flushed a ‘what about teh poor wittle menz y r u so mean to thems’ rant-y eedjit out the woodwork. keeerist.

  19. DrDomVirginia says:

    This dialogue has been entertaining and even informative, but it seems to me that it is missing a very important point.
    The purpose of Lady Lubyanka’s document is to tell men what she believes works and does not work in the dating world, based on her experience.
    That being the case, it really doesn’t matter if what she is saying is “right” or “reasonable.” It only matters whether or not she is accurate in saying that certain things will be a turn-off to many women. In that, my experience is that she is correct.

  20. Tim says:

    I recently finished a four year relationship. It started when I was 16, we were young, still learning about ourselves, still growing. I still say to people “we just grew apart”, and it’s true. What I don’t say is the part about BDSM. As I matured I discovered a passion for being submissive which threw me for a loop completely. How do you explain to someone you love and care for that you have a desire to be submissive, and for them to be dominant about you? Especially when they are not, or have no interest in, any of these things? For me, I loved her too much to ask her to change like that, and neither of us were comfortable with me seeing someone else to fill that void. We talked one night, I was completely open and honest with everything I knew at the time, and afterwards we decided that we needed to break up.

    That was the hardest conversation of my life, followed by some of the most painful time. And sure as hell I’m not getting into another relationship without knowing that she enjoys being dominant.

    While reading your rant, Lady, I agreed wholeheartedly.
    While reading through the extensive comments by Xenor, I also agreed wholeheartedly.

    I’m sure that there’s a subset of men who don’t show the respect that every human being deserves, let alone the respect required from a submissive to a dominant. I’m sure you receive alot crap from them. I hope that they’re mainly who you’re ranting about.

    However, I got into a relationship before I knew I was submissive. I still truely love her, but there’s a part of my psyche that she can’t be a part of, and for me it’s just too big a void. Please understand that there are some among us who are civil, and caring. And that where BDSM is concerned, full and open communication is a necessity for a functional relationship. And that yes, sometimes that’ll involve talking about sex.

  21. Tim says:

    addendum.

    BDSM to me is more about power exchange and submission. The toys and pain are fun, but only as a symbol of the former. For me it’s not just sexual, but a part of who I am.
    Whatever BDSM means to you, please understand what I mean when I write.

    In a vanilla relationship, your biggest sexual problem is likely to be that they’re bad in bed, or they want to try anal. Unless there’s something drastically wrong, it’s unlikely to be a dealbreaker. BDSM is such a deviation from this that to not talk about it, as Xenor should have put it, is most likely a waste of both your time.

    The fundamental problem with BDSM dating sites is that it starts about sex, and judgement is largely based on looks (rather than personality). Unfortunately there seem to be alot of men who grab on to this and fail to understand that this kink is simply the common denominator, it’s still all about finding mutual attraction and getting to know people, just as it is in the real world. (Even moreso for women, as I understand). The fact that this lack of respect is coming from supposedly submissive men boggles my mind further.
    Alot of what you rant about, Lady Lubyanka, should already have been remedied by common decency. Yes, it’s largely up to submissive men to appeal to dominant women, but I’m truly sorry that you have to experience the bullshit you do from people who don’t deserve your time.

    further addendum.
    This is specifically in reference to blog #5. Most of these rants address their subjects simply as “Men”, which includes me. If it’s supposed to be implied that you’re only talking about those who have been improper, it doesn’t read like that. Hopefully at the very least my experiences can be food for thought.

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