Lady Lubyanka

Rant: Attitudes Towards Pro Doms

Thursday, 21 June, 2007 · 13 Comments

Enter another rant from my seemingly endless store of rants.
 

    Idiot2

          Photographic evidence of a fuckwit in action.

    Image reproduced here with kind permission.     :)

 
 
Welcome To My Rant. :)

I think this is one of my “Respect” rants, in that my main objection to what I’m ranting about involves prejudiced lack of respect and gross generalisations shown to an entire group of people indiscriminately, based on their profession and gender.
 

    **Update 15 May 2008 – I now see that this rant is actually one of my hypocrism rants. (end update)

 
I think the fact that so many people share this view of pro doms, combined with the fact that the people they’re prejudiced against are not recognised by many individuals as being worthwhile members of the greater populace (another problem in and of itself) is amongst the reasons why this problem seems to be so self perpetrating and self perpetuating.

It never ceases to amaze me how people can get outraged against bigots who are prejudiced against a different group of people, and then when their own bigotry is pointed out, they say something like:

“Oh, no, but that’s different.”

“Different”, my arse.
 

 
I just adore the way this topic is an unfailing detector of those individuals who claim to celebrate inclusion and diversity, and who claim to condemn bigotry and prejudice, and who are subsequently revealed to unequivocally exclude diversity and embrace bigotry and prejudice.

Ok, to get on with the rantfest:

There are people (for “people”, read “bigoted prejudiced uninformed inaccurate fuckwits“) who regard ALL pro doms variously as:
 

  • Prostitutes / Sex Workers
  • People who bring “genuine BDSM Lifestylers into disrepute”
  • People who are incapable of forming any relationship whatsoever with any person who pays them
  • People who are incapable of having any regard whatsoever for a person based solely on the fact that this person pays them
  • People who are incapable of forming any genuine relationship with anybody

 
 
Hmmm, now, which do I address first, the large amount of factual and logical evidence I have to support my disagreement with this position, or the uninformed aforementioned fuckwits who perpetuate this bigotry?

Decisions……… decisions……………

Ok, facts first, I think.
 
 

The Facts

 
First, a definition of sex worker. The following lot of definitions are all taken from the very wonderful and multi-meritorious Wikipedia unless otherwise stated.
 

    Sex worker

  • A sex worker is a person who earns money by providing sexual services. The term was coined by American prostitute-activist Carol Leigh in the 1970s as a political term.[citation needed] It is sometimes used as a synonym or euphemism for prostitution, but most scholars define “sex workers” to include individuals who perform sexual or sexually oriented activities in the sex industry, such as strippers, erotic massage therapists, pornography actors and actresses, live sex shows, webcam shows, and phone sex operators (Weitzer 2000).

 
Please note: I have no issue whatsoever with sex workers, or sex work. My sole issue here is attributing accurate names for things.
 
Now, while Dominance can certainly be erotic, so can a fabulously good dinner, or a lengthy shower, or a super duper comfortable pair of shoes. The fact of the sometime presence of an erotic element does not make a person a sex worker.
 

    Note:     Sensual does NOT equal Sexual

 
Restaurants indulge a sensual need, health clubs with saunas and jacuzzis also answer to sensual needs, does that make the restaurant and health club staff all sex workers? It can be very erotic to sit in a jacuzzi.     ;)
 
 

    Dominant

  • A dominant is one who enjoys performing any of a variety of BDSM practices upon a submissive; or one who holds a dominant position within a relationship based upon dominance and submission (D/s). This enjoyment can spring from a simple desire for dominance or an enjoyment of the interplay of wills involved in such a scenario. A male dominant is often called a Dom; a female, a Domme or dominatrix.

 

    or more concisely:

  • Dom: Man or woman who exercises control (from dominant-contrast with sub)
  • Dominant: Man or woman who exercises control – contrast with submissive
  • Domme: Woman who exercies control (see also Dominatrix)

 
 

    “Pro dom”, or Professional dominant

  • A professional dominant or professional dominatrix is a person who performs the dominant role in BDSM activities in exchange for money. Most professional dominants do not have sex in exchange for money, and do not regard themselves as prostitutes.
  • A female dominant is known as a dominatrix (plural dominatrices), and the term is often used as a synonym for a female professional dominant. A pro domme is another term used for a female professional dominant.

 
 

    D/s relationship styles
     

  • There can be any number of partners in a D/s relationship, with one dominant sometimes having several submissives, who may in turn dominate others, or a submissive sometimes may have multiple dominants. Relationships may be monogamous or polyamorous. Romantic love is not necessarily a feature in D/s, partners might be very much in love or have no romantic relationship at all.
    Variation in D/s is virtually limitless and the activities take many forms.
  • Some D/s relationships are sexual, others completely chaste. Fantasy role play can also be a part, with partners taking classic dominant/submissive roles such as teacher/student, police officer/suspect or parent/child. Animal Play, where one partner takes the role of owner/caretaker and the other takes the part of a pet or animal, can also be D/s play.

 
 
Now, for some final words on dominance, and d/s interactions, from Domsub.info and the Domsub.info FAQ. I like these ones best, because they’re the most inclusive, and therefore I think the most accurate overall.
 

    We define Dominant / submissive (D/s) as:

  • Dominance (also called Domination) – In terms of BDSM [Bondage · Discipline · Sadism · Masochism] and D/s, this term refers to taking control of a person or situation through usage of some means (such as physical, mental, financial, etc), or to exercise this power. A person who exercises this power on a regular basis, outside of BDSM scenes, is called a Dominant; the gender specific titles being Dom or Master for a man, Domme, Mistress, or Dominatrix for a woman.
  •  
    Isn’t D/s just about kinky sex?

  • Sometimes it is, and sometimes it isn’t. How much of a person’s life is effected by their involvement with D/s depends entirely on the individual. For some people, D/s is limited to sexual role-play; for others it is a way of life. Each person decides for themselves how much or how little they want to involve D/s in their lives.

 
Ok, having presented the facts as I see them, I will now do some discussion.
 
 

Discussion Of The Facts – Credibility

 
Now, I appreciate that the internet can very likely be relied upon to provide support for just about any debating position you’d care to name. However, I think Wikipedia can certainly be relied upon to care deeply about the standard of its content, and can be depended upon to fix entries which don’t conform to its rigorous standards, should irregularities be reported.

In fact, at least one of the articles I quoted has been edited for Wikipedia standards violations since I began composing this rant a few days ago. I went back to check the page I got the definition from and the definition had been edited (for the better, I feel). The version I quoted was the most recent.

So, yay Wikipedia!

(I keep meaning to send them money, I really must do that soon)
 

    **Update 16 May 2008 – The articles have been modified extensively since then, as well as having been reorganised and on some occasions separated out onto separate pages. Just so you know.

    Also, I still haven’t sent Wikimedia any money. Oh well. (end update)

 
I also feel that I can trust my own judgment (not that I’m asking anybody else to, but hey, this is my blog, so enh. ;) ). And in my judgment, I regard those definitions, from those sites, to be reliable, at least to me and my experience.
 
 

Discussion Of The Facts – “Power Exchange” Is Not All About Sex.

 
I feel strongly that dominance is not solely about the erotic, the way a sex worker’s job is. The fact that dominance has a significant proportion of itself outside the realm of the erotic is what makes pro doms not necessarily sex workers in my book.

It wasn’t difficult to find web pages and definitions from reputable sources to support my position on this.

I mean, just because consensual power exchange might turn some people on, does not make it inherently erotic. The existence of a safety pin fetishist or two does not ultimately convert safety pins from a mundane item into the epitomal representative of hot sexuality. Safety pins are hot to the safety pin fetishists, and to nobody else. Power exchange is hot to those who are attracted to it, and to nobody else.

I also appreciate that, having made the first point about the internet being a good source for any position in any debate, I’m sure there is just bucketloads of stuff out there supporting the assertion that all pro doms are sex workers. But I think I covered that above when I spoke of uninformed bigotry being self perpetrating and self perpetuating.

There are a ginormous amount of people out there who are uninformed, prejudiced, and who make grossly unsupported generalisations about entire populations of people.

Now, by me saying “pro doms are not sex workers by definition”, that could be interpreted as a gross generalisation too. Let me be quite clear about this:
 

    I AM disputing that by definition, ALL pro doms are sex workers, simply by the fact of them being pro doms. I’m actually not disputing that SOME pro doms are in fact sex workers.

 
So, I am disputing gross generalisations, universally made about a section of the population, using gender and profession as the sole criteria, without any firm evidence to support their position

I am also disputing the premise that dominance/power exchange = sex

I dispute the assertion that dominance, by definition, is solely and entirely to do with erotic behaviour. I think I was able to clearly show above that this is not the case.

We are all human beings. As such, we are all sexual beings. However, this does not mean that every human being on the planet is either having sex 100% of the time, or thinking about sex 100% of the time.
 

    (adolescent males are excused from the above comment on the grounds of, well, it’s biology, innit     :D

 
Just as every homosexual, bisexual, or heterosexual person does not necessarily have erotic play on the agenda 100% of the time, neither does every dominant or submissive. Just because a person identifies with a certain erotic orientation, does not mean that everything they do is erotic.

Lesbian relationships are not accurately characterised by two lesbians constantly going at it with each other under the duvet at all hours every day. Neither are male homosexual relationships accurately characterised by gay men always doing something erotic with their cocks to each other. D/s relationships are not accurately characterised by d/s people being in erotic scene play 100% of the time.
 
 

“Power Exchange” Is Not All About Sex – Examples

 

  • If a person higher up in the hierarchy of a workplace environment gets inappropriately and unconsensually sexual with a fellow employee a rung or two down the ladder from them, that is not sex, that is abuse of power.
  • Just because something involves the more erogenous zones of the body does not mean that the aforementioned something is sexual.
  • Is urination or defecation sexual? Is farting sexual? Is cystitis sexual?

 
 

Discussion Of The Facts – Human Needs

 
People used to think that male homosexual meant by definition, promiscuous. Some are, some are not, same as any population of people. Polyamory does not mean promiscuous, neither does homosexuality of whatever gender. And power exchange relationships are certainly defined by criteria other than how promiscuous any of their practitioners are.

However, in everything that we do, our erotic orientation forms some part of our human identity as a whole. It affects how we see things and the choices we make. Vanilla heterosexuals, as representative of the currently known majority population on the planet, can sometimes make assumptions which other groups can buy into simply out of habit and having not spent any time considering what it is they’re buying into.

I have heard many d/s people talking about setting aside their d/s predilections for the sake of a vanilla partner.

I personally find that quite shocking.

The very idea of asking a vanilla person to set aside their vanilla-ness for a d/s lifestyle seems unreasonable in the extreme. Yet many d/s people do it without even thinking about it, because they’ve been told that it’s just a hobby or something, which they can stop doing, like fishing.

Of the many d/s people I have encountered who have taken the route of pretending to be vanilla, they found that loving and being loved by their partner was not enough to meet the needs which were not being met, which was due in part to their d/s orientation.

It is true that, in the BDSM community, online and off, there are countless numbers of people who are in vanilla relationships and have been hiding their BDSM identity from people close to them for a long time.

I believe that this describes a significant proportion of the BDSM community whose sensual needs are not being met. People who are not having a need met, tend to think more and more and more and more about that need until it kind of takes them over. I think we’ve all heard about people who were stranded out someplace for an extended period of time, and there are many descriptions of being in a state of mind where they can only think about food and beverages almost 100% of the time.

There are a few basic needs we all have as human beings which are priorities over others. Food, water, shelter, appropriate body temperature, and human interaction and touch.

When any of those needs are insufficiently met, the mind prioritises them in order of importance. When intensely dehydrated, hunger is forgotten, and all one thinks of is water.

Once the thirst is slaked, hunger reappears, almost at once, and begins to obsess the mind.

When one is too cold, that can also occupy the mind to the exclusion of much else.

And, as human beings who require the safe touch of other beings, when that is missing, that can also become an obsession, in whatever form the person chooses to consider it. Masturbation can sometimes be used as a poor substitute for safe touch from another person.
 
 

Discussion Of The Facts – Safe Touch

 
When I say “safe touch” here, I refer to any kind of pleasant, consensual, non-health-or-safety-risking, non-startling touch from other humans or affectionate pets.

It isn’t uncommon for people to think they are craving erotic activity when in fact all they really require is safe touch, and lots of it.

I know that my kvetch can go for weeks without release, and not really notice it all that much. This most definitely was not the case before I accepted him under my authority. This change has come about because I spend a large amount of time sharing safe touch with him.

Babies are known to fail to thrive, develop emotional, developmental, and physical disorders, and brain damage is not uncommon, when they are insufficiently cuddled from an early age.

And we never outgrow our need for safe touch, ever. It is an inbuilt need in human beings every bit as much as hunger and thirst.

So, I absolutely will NOT accept that a pro dom’s only role is to provide sexual services for the client submissive. I feel that pro doms offer an intense overdose of safe touch which can tide the submissive over until the next chance he or she gets to have some safe touch.

I also dispute any allegations that “safe touch” is by definition, sexual. Safe touch from a mother to her child is not sexual. Safe touch between friends is not sexual. Safe touch between consenting erotic partners can be sexual, but does not have to be.
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Now, I could at this point segue into My single most humongous ramble of all time, which is all about specifically how difficulties endured by most human beings are rooted in currently imperceptible damage done to us as children when this or that seemingly insignificant transgression against us occurred.
 
But I think I’ll save that for my book. :)
 
Now, for the rantfest on fuckwit central, yay!
 
 

Rantfest

 
I realise that making personal attacks on debaters asserting an opposing position to me is not a valid recognised debating technique. Having said that, I believe it is valid to question the validity of the information on which my opponents base their conclusions.

Of the people who have asserted to me that pro doms are the various things I listed above, almost all have not only never been to a pro dom professionally, but they have never even met a single one socially, in person.

A few of them have been to a pro dom once or twice professionally. A few have met one or two socially. I do not believe that experience of one or two people from an entire population of people is a statistically valid sample size on which to base a supportably firm conclusion. And certainly, a sample size of Zero is even less statistically valid, calling for mere speculation and/or hearsay.
 
 
Inept Counter Arguments:
 .
I love the way people counter my logical stance in a debate with stuff like references to how relatively short a time I’ve been in the BDSM lifestyle, how much longer they’ve been in it than I have (as if they got some kind of “time served” certification to be an official fuckwit or something) or allusions to my apparent “defensiveness” when I disagree with their unsupported, uninformed, inaccurate, and often misogynistic positions.

I note that it isn’t considered good debating style if assertions made apparently in support of your position do not relate to the original premise. It also, as I observed above, isn’t considered a valid debating technique to make personal attacks on your opponents at the expense of establishing a logical position for yourself in the debate. So, if a person disagrees with my position on anything, including (but not limited to) on the grounds of:

  1. My apparently inferiour amount of time “in The Lifestyle”
  2. Them thinking that I myself am a pro dom
  3. Them alleging that I’m being “defensive” just because I disagree with them

then I couldn’t regard that as a credible opposing position to take with regards to debate.

A little logic, please? I don’t think that’s too much to ask.

Oh, and some factually supportable information would be rather excellent as well.     ;)
 
 
Some people have this strange idea that a person can be “in The Lifestyle” for twenty years (having never ventured further into it than on the internet) and somehow know more about it than a person who’s been “in The Lifestyle” for one year, and spent most of it going to play parties, BDSM events, and enjoying real actual physical in person d/s relationships.

I’ve even heard one person identifying as a dominant who claimed to have been “in The Lifestyle” since she was 15 years old, all because she unconsensually spanked some neighbourhood boy when she was that age, who then ran home crying afterwards.

That’s not BDSM, that’s abuse.

I have to laugh, really.

(hollow laugh)
 

    (it’s these same people who tend to assert that pro doms are prostitutes)

 
When somebody puts forward what I regard as an uninformed, inaccurate point of view, and I offer an alternative view, supporting my position with facts and figures and examples, the most commonplace response I get is the kneejerk reaction slyly attemtping to put me in my place because I’m apparently more of a beginner than a 20 year submissive in a vanilla relationship who’s never even seen anybody in person doing BDSM anything.

Oh, and I forgot one of my favourites, when I see males identifying as dominant who have REAL issues accepting the idea of female authority with any grace whatsoever.

I mean, come on males, a dominant woman is no threat to you. She isn’t going to bust your balls (not unless you ask nicely, of course :p ). Unless the reason you’re afraid of her because her very presence causes your dick to shrivel up and drop off like in leprosy?
 

 
Even if the offending males are now realising they’ve been a submissive all this time and want a dominant of their own, they seem to have trouble with female authority. But noooooooooooo, they can’t go to a pro dom, because if they pay her, that will show them that they value her and her services, and they can’t have that, no sir.

Their dick will surely shrink and drop off, and most undoubtedly the fact that their Porsche/Mercedes/BMX/Skateboard will suddenly and irrevocably turn into a Reliant Robin is too horrible ( for “horrible” read “fabulously amusing” ) to contemplate. ;)

And now, (as if this post wasn’t long enough) for some self examination:
 
 

Navel Gazing

 
Ok, I’m going to ask myself this question:

Why am I getting so utterly disressed about this topic?

I’m going to list a couple of reasons I can think of off the top of my head:

  1. Not Feeling Heard – I have a really strong emotional trigger reaction to feeling I’m not being heard. So if people carry on as if I’ve said nothing, or if they simply disregard, dismiss, and/or invalidate what I say, I get a really intensely unpleasant flashback of pain and distress.
  2.  

  3. Unfair Blame – Having somebody accuse an entire group of people of something they’re not, reminds me of another trigger I’m susceptible to. Being unfairly blamed for being/doing/saying something for which I have no legitimate responsibility brings on another intensely unpleasant flashback of pain and distress. It also connects to the “not feeling heard” trigger. So it’s a double trigger. Perhaps I’m identifying with the pro doms (and dominant women generally) being accused of being something they’re not.
  4.  

  5. Feeling Disregarded – I think there’s something about when I feel so strongly that I’m in the right, and have strong evidence to support my position, and all that is just disregarded because
    • The other people don’t care about details, accuracy or facts
    • The other people don’t care about learning anything or improving themselves
    • The other people give Me no credibility at all because
      • I’m a woman
      • I’m a dominant
      • I’m too inexperienced/young/female/tall/short/pale/dark/whatever for their tastes
      • They desperately want me but can’t ever have me because I’d never dominate them in a million billion trillion years (maybe longer), and they blame and resent me for that
      •  
        (none of which is my fault)

 
What I think all that is leading up to is that I end up being treated as if I and my thoughts and ideas are utterly unimportant, even when I have evidence to the contrary. And whoooosh! Another triggered flashback of pain and distress.

Gosh, who knew I was this neurotic?

    (well, me, but enh)     :p

    • (and kvetch)
    • (and all my friends)
    • (and most of my acquaintances)
    • (and their dogs, cats, goldfish, and hamsters)

Ok, so everybody knew I was this neurotic. Just as well this is not a Breaking News blog. ;)
 
 

ps:     I vote for the best line of this entire post to be

 

 
Votes in the comments section, please. ;)

Categories: BDSM · Domination · Dominatrix · FemDom · FemDomme · Me Me Me Me Me · Mistress · Power Exchange · Psychology · Rant · fuckwits · slave · sub · submission · submissive

13 responses so far ↓

  • sssssally // Sunday, 24 June, 2007 at 22:08:47 | Reply

    Wow. Great post :) Thanks for this :)

  • Lady Lubyanka // Sunday, 24 June, 2007 at 23:01:17 | Reply

    Thank you sssssally. :)

    It’s kind of hard to imagine why anybody would enjoy Me ranting on at (rather verbose) length about anything at all, but there you go. ;)

    I’m glad you enjoyed it. That gives Me the warm fuzzies. :)

  • Rainnie // Tuesday, 26 June, 2007 at 01:23:14 | Reply

    speaking as one of the aforementioned neanderthals who do not like ProDommes simply because of their profession, I have to say thanks for this article. Or rant. Informative rant. I still dont like Pro Dommes, well not them personally, just the job description I guess. Its not something I could ever bring myself to do. Not because it is nasty or prostitution or anything like that (and NO I do not feel that a Pro Domme is in fact a prostitute) but because it is accepting money for something I do anyway. I am trying to simplify a complex thought process here and it’s not working very well.
    I personally do not feel comfortable with the concept of a Pro Domme. I dont judge them on a generalized basis, and I try to accept the fact that – like a wild animal – they just do what they do. But then there are a lot of professions I do not like – though I have nothing against the people IN them. Maybe thats it.

  • Lady Lubyanka // Tuesday, 26 June, 2007 at 09:23:19 | Reply

    Aww, Rainnie, you’re not a Neanderthal. :)

    I guess you know that doing something because you want to is not the same as doing it for a living. I play music for a living, and I can tell you it most definitely is not the same as playing music just because I want to, or feel like it. The two things don’t mutually exclude each other, I still do gigs when they’re booked, and I also play for fun with My mates.

    Pro Dommes aren’t accepting money for doing what you do. They’re doing something different. They’re doing a transaction in which different rules apply. If I play for fun, it doesn’t matter if I turn up late, or stop in the middle whenever I want, or get drunk or play badly. If I’m doing a gig I need to ensure that I’m prompt, that all My gear is functional and present, that I’m not too inebriated to do My job, that I’m all psyched up and ready to go.

    In a gig, I can’t just stop in the middle any time I want to. I can’t drink too much, can’t play badly, and can’t arrive late. In a gig I know I’ve got to play from such-and-such o’clock to such-and-such o’clock. When I play for fun I can play from and til whatever time I want. Two different things, that from the outside, look the same.

    I am not sure about this, I feel somehow that you may feel threatened by the very idea of Pro Dommeness. I could be mistaken, of course. :) I sort of think I’m getting the impression that in some way, you don’t like the idea of Pro Dommes because you maybe feel that some people (stupid people), in their minds, will think there’s no difference between Pro Dommes and Lifestyle Dommes, and therefore think you’re one of them?

    So it would make sense if you didn’t like them, because you have uncomfortable feelings about them (which are probably nothing to do with them, since you never met any).

    Maybe I should have put a fact in that post:

    Fact: Pro Dommes Are Not There To Make Lifestyle Dommes Feel Uncomfortable.

    :)

    Maybe if you met one, you’d feel differently? Or maybe not. I’ve met Pro Dommes (in person) whom I think are just lovely. And I have met Pro Dommes (in person) whom I think are dangerous lunatics who are This Close (====>.

  • Lady Lubyanka // Tuesday, 26 June, 2007 at 23:22:58 | Reply

    Damn, truncated, crap. Lemme see if I can remember what came after….

    who are This Close (.) to being arrested and incarcerated for assault and battery. But then, that’s not so different from the people I meet who are not Pro Dommes. :p

    I find Myself curious regarding the root source of your discomfort on this topic, because it doesn’t seem rooted and based in the pure on-the-surface logic of it.

    Anyhow, it’s great to see you here and thanks for looking in. :)

    Banana waves from,

    Lubyanka. :)

  • Rainnie // Wednesday, 27 June, 2007 at 02:00:10 | Reply

    The source of my discomfort more than likely originally stems from the vanilla world and its perceptions of the Lifestyle in general, and the somehow ‘dirty’ connotation of having to pay for something that can be sexual in nature. and OMG that is so hypocritical of me! I used to work in the adult entertainment industry, so I should not be quite so judgemental. The only contact I have had with any ProDommes has been online. I have met a few who are nice as pie, but it’s the submissives I have met who are ‘owned’ or ‘collared’ by a ProDomme that are probably the biggest reason for my discomfort. I guess I do feel threatened by someone accepting payment for a collar. Having a submissive or slave is a lot of work (with great rewards) and making a relationship work right is a give and take on both sides. It takes a great deal of commitment. And I do not see the same level of commitment in a ProDomme relationship. Again, I have not seen both sides, so I do not know for a fact that a ProDomme does not genuinely care for the submissive under her care. But to accept money for the devotion of a collared slave grates on my sense of fair play.
    I do see that there is a need for such professionals in the Lifestyle – as it is difficult to find one who matches our needs. And I can understand that seeing a ProDomme is the only outlet that some submissives have. However (and again this is just My opinion), a distinction should be made between a collar given by a ProDomme and one given by a ‘regular’ Dominant. (LOL maybe its just the delineation of Pro versus Amateur)

    *munches on a banana and apologizes for ranting so much in Your rant*
    (what?? they are for eating too!)

    Rainnie =o]

  • Lady Lubyanka // Wednesday, 27 June, 2007 at 02:27:59 | Reply

    Oh, no, please, rant away! Comments mean somebody read it, lol, and that’s all yummy goodness for Me. :D

    I’m detecting a few issues here. One is the your idea of financial involvement in D/s, another is your idea of financial involvement in ownership, and still another is your idea of what other people think of financial involvement in D/s, ownership, and its reflection on you in the eyes of others.

    The biggie I’m getting from this post is the financial involvement in ownership and other people’s perceptions of it, as reflecting on yourself.

    What I’m wondering is, why it bothers you so much what choices other people make, and why you think it reflects or affects you in any way. And also what this has to do with Pro Dommes as a whole.

    Every profession and walk of life has a myriad of different kinds of people in it. Some are admirable, some are not. Some have some degree of self destructive behaviour, some do not.

    I’m wondering what you think other people’s choices, whether beneficial or not, have anything to do with you? And also, why do choices, made by others, which you feel are not beneficial, upset you so much? If you feel what you do is the optimum thing for you, what does it matter what other people do or think?

    Not every Pro Domme takes money for bestowing a collar. Not every financial transaction with a Dominant is on a Pro Domme basis. Some Dommes take money in Financial Domination, and are not Pro Dommes. Ultimately, a collar is worth what the Dominant who offers it is worth, irrespective of what is given in exchange for it.

    So what I’m wondering here is, is the issue of paying money for a collar the big issue for you here? Is that the main association you make with being a Pro Domme? Or is there something else about Pro Dommes which bothers you?

    Please do go on, you’re being very generous here with your honest analysis of your attitudes, and I’m very much interested in your thoughts on this. :)

    Much banana goodness, from

    Lubyanka. :)

  • Rainnie // Wednesday, 27 June, 2007 at 03:02:05 | Reply

    This is something of a journey of self discovery here, actually trying to identify why I feel the way I do about something that I had heretofore thought of as an irrational dislike. In your reply you commented “Ultimately, a collar is worth what the Dominant who offers it is worth, irrespective of what is given in exchange for it.” and that set off little *dingdingding* bells in my head. And I have always felt that having to pay for love cheapens it. It is not quite genuine.
    I suppose that is how I see ProDomming – as somehow not as genuine as a “real” relationship. I put that in quotations because I know that we all perceive a relationship in different ways. For myself, I suspect I have a very Vanilla-like viewpoint. (although I have always claimed I am no more than vanilla – with cinnamon swirls)
    Submission is something that I have always seen as something that is offered freely. Acceptance of that submission – of that ultimate gift of power – should be accepted just as freely. I see having to pay someone to give them that gift – as somehow not as genuine or special. And yes I do see that that type of service reflects on me in the way that others (the ‘outside world’) view me and the lifestyle choices I have made. I want acceptance from the vanilla world. and all the vanilla world sees of our lifestyle usually are the Professionals. And to be honest, a ProDomme doesnt offer a true window into the lifestyle. It is a service, nothing more.
    They are actors on a stage, with a script of how things are going to go. Nice to look at – but no real depth.
    I wonder if my view would change if I went to a ‘dungeon’ and watched…

    Now you have me thinking I have been wrong…

    Rainnie

  • Lady Lubyanka // Wednesday, 27 June, 2007 at 03:56:57 | Reply

    Ok, I think we’re really getting somewhere here, well done. :D

    When you started saying about the dingdingding in your head, I had a few dings in Mine. I thought, ok, feelings of self worth, need for external validation, unfair treatment by the vanilla world unable and/or unwilling to celebrate difference.

    Not to mention, issues with love. I’ll start with that one first:

    I think you’d probably agree that love is love, the real thing can’t be bought, or sold, or traded, or negotiated, or bargained for. It can’t be grudgingly offered, or conditional, or partial. Love is what it is.

    Now, I totally understand where you’re coming from on this one. Too many times to count, people have used the “L” word at Me, simply as a way to manipulate Me. Do I have issues with it as a result? You bet your arse!!! ;)

    Now, I could imagine a situation where love is genuine, and as a separate thing, money is offered in exchange for something in addition to love, which as we both know, is not something which can be bought. I have no problem with that scenario.

    I can also imagine a situation where one person gives money, in exchange for a collar, and allegedly, “love”. However much is wrong with that scenario, it’s nothing to do with Me whether I like it or not. So, for now, I’m going to leave that pretty little self destructive situation to one side.

    Now, with the Pro Domming being “real” or not:

    Pro Dommes offer something different to Lifestyle Dommes. That’s a fact. It’s also the case that Pro Dommes can have life partners whose feelings for each other are every bit as valid and genuine as anybody else’s. I believe that it’s also the case that some Pro Dommes, the good ones, have a genuine regard and respect for their clients. I’m sure the clients are able to tell which Pro Dommes feel this way and which ones don’t.

    I’m sure you know that not all Pro Dommes are the same.

    Ok, now I’m going to look at the feelings you expressed regarding your own sense of self worth:

    It is totally not uncommon for people to have feelings of a poor self image. This can manifest itself an loads of different and creative ways. The brain also has tons of equally varied and creative ways of hiding this fact from ourselves.

    Feelings of poor self worth can lead to feelings of intense need for positive external validation from others. When this is not forthcoming, it can reinforce the feelings of poor self worth, which to be honest, can hurt like strapon penetration with piles.

    Part of the ingredients which contribute to feelings of poor self worth, can be anger related to unfair attribution of responsibility for things which aren’t your fault. Even though your adult mind knows intellectually what’s realistically your responsiblity and what isn’t, your emotional self still responds vivdly to feelings of unfair blame as it did when you were a child.

    And again, the brain has loads of interesting creative ways of hiding this fact from us.

    I am going to speculate here that your feelings of poor self worth are fuelling this entire issue inside you. I think it’s possible that you feel as if you yourself, in effect, are the Pro Dommes which the vanilla world love to despise. There’s so many things in that scenario which fit:

    1. Feelings of poor self worth, anger at, and fear of poor treatment from others, disguised as contempt for Pro Dommes.

    2. Feelings of poor self worth, and fear of poor treatment, continually reinforced by the vanilla world’s unfair blame on Pro Dommes (i.e. all things different, i.e. you).

    3. Feelings of anger at and fear of the unfair blame which the vanilla world attributes to Pro Dommes (i.e. all things which they regard as external to them and therefore responsible for all evils in the world, since it can’t be their fault, oh no, so it must all be the Pro Dommes’ fault, i.e. YOUR fault).

    4. Continual lack of positive external validation from the vanilla world, reinforcing your own feelings of self blame, self doubt, fear, anger, and poor self worth, since you are continually treated as being of little value (as Pro Dommes often are treated).

    5. Apportioning of responsibility on the Pro Dommes for your utterly unpleasant feelings, and on the vanilla world, since it’s so much easier and safer to believe that unpleasant feelings of anger, fear, poor self worth and unimportance are somebody else’s fault (which they are, but not the Pro Dommes’ responsibility).

    6. “Joining in” with the bullies (vanilla world) in bullying the Pro Dommes in an effort to “fit in” and be “more normal” so that you won’t be quite so much of a target for the bullies next time round.

    So, I’m going to make a leap here and deduce that you have been unconsciously using Pro Dommes as a way to examine your own feelings regarding your anger, fear, self image, self worth, and identity, and how all those are supposed to “fit in” to a world populated by intolerant people.

    The really depressing thing is, I think that this is how intolerance in all its forms is born and grows. I don’t think most intolerant people start out as being evil. I think a lot of them share your fear and anger and poor self worth, and the whole world reinforces these feelings because the bulk of the people in it all have similar ones.

    I think you were really splendiforous there, looking so closely and honestly at your attitudes. I can’t tell you enough how much I admire you at the end there where you admitted that you might have been in error. Way to go. :D

    And yay Me for presenting such a persuasive premise, lol.

    The Mutual Appreciation Society is now in session. :p

    Big smiles and celebratory banana waves, from

    Lubyanka.

    ps: Must go to bed now, kvetch is coming up in a few hours and I should really be awake for that, lol. :p

  • The Pot Calling The Kettle Black « Lady Lubyanka // Saturday, 11 August, 2007 at 12:01:30 | Reply

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  • Leopold // Thursday, 15 May, 2008 at 05:58:15 | Reply

    Dear Lady Lubyanka,

    You write wonderfully, and I will probably read it all sometime, but breakfast and work await and the dog needs a walk – yet I can’t resist the subject of this rant.

    I started my journey into bdsm 3 years ago by visiting a pro-domme I found on-line. Her website impressed me and made me feel confident enough that she wouldn’t splash my name to the newspapers that I went to see her. I was not disappointed. Three years hence, we are on friendly terms, and I know her to be a real lifestyle, lesbian, pro-domme who is highly ethical, very professional, and gleefully sadistic. She’s just for real. She cares about people, has a real life, loves animals, is a talented business woman, fetish model… In short, she does what she does with the same high standards as any good doctor or lawyer does what they do. I have been to two other pro-dommes who are equally wonderful. They have done a lot to support my growth and have always treated me with respect and compassion. They’ve made me feel validated, and they have my undying admiration and gratitude for their hotness, their calculated meanness, and kindness to match. They are unique, beautiful people.

    My opinion is based on only three women, but it is completely positive. So, I liked your rant, and your point about having to show up on time and see clients they may not particularly like (if they choose to) is a good one. It’s just part of professionalism and running a successful business.

  • Lady Lubyanka // Friday, 16 May, 2008 at 19:37:34 | Reply

    Thank you Leopold.   :)

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